Pain Free Birth Podcast Episode 23: A Father’s Perspective On Hospital & Home Births And Their Redemptive Pain Free Birth Experience with Harif & Jennifer Hazera

This episode is a real treat! Today, Karen is joined by both husband and wife, Harif & Jennifer Hazera. This beautiful couple ran into Karen at a Tony Robbins event where they were able to share their beautiful home birth story and thank Karen for all her help. Jennifer was a graduate of the Pain Free Birth Course and it didn’t come very naturally ⏤ no pun intended. After experiencing a horribly traumatic birth with their first son in the hospital, Harif and Jennifer eventually came to the decision to have their second son in the comfort of their own home. Once a thought that Jennifer scoffed at turned into the most redemptive, God-ordained moment ever. Tune in to this episode to hear the stark difference between their two birth experiences and how fathers are dismissed throughout and left with trauma after the birth experience.


Harif and Jennifer are happily married and work together as entrepreneurs in the real estate space. Once they got pregnant with their first baby, they didn’t question giving birth in a hospital, that is until there were too many disturbances and interventions that ruined the sacred experience they thought they were going to have by bringing their first son Leo into the world. Fast forward to getting pregnant with their second son, Max, they knew that it could be better. After getting three obvious signs from God to explore a home birth, Jennifer finally gave in. Little did they know, God would end up offering the most redemptive experience to them by giving birth inside their home in the way they dreamed of. Harif and Jennifer are just like you, they weren’t professionals in home birth knowledge but after graduating from the Pain Free Birth Course, they gained the knowledge and empowerment needed to have the most beautiful, sacred, and pain free birth at home.

Instagram: @j_hazera 

KAREN: Welcome back to the show mamas today I have the absolute pleasure of interviewing Jennifer and Harif Hazara, who is a couple that took my course, and I met them when they recognize me in the crowd at a Tony Robbins event last year in December. And they said, Oh my gosh, you’re Karen Welton. We took your course.

It changed our life. We have to tell you our story. And, and I said, I have to bring you on the podcast to share with my listeners what, what you have to say about your, your birth, because you had a medicated hospital birth and then took my course and had a completely different natural physiological home birth, mostly pain free.

And I especially am excited as well to talk to Harif because you gave such a beautiful example of the dad’s perspective in all of this. And so welcome to the show, Jennifer and Harif.

JENNIFER: Thank you so much. It’s truly an honor to be here and to get to share our story.

HARIF: Yes. Thank you for having us.

KAREN: I’m so excited.

I rarely get to interview the couple, but you both made such an impression on me. And I felt like it was really important to highlight the dad’s voice as well in this, because so often we hear the birth story from the mother and your birth story is nothing short of Incredible. But I, I really love having the dad’s perspective as well.

And what it did for you as a father and a husband to see the changes that happened in your wife.

HARIF: Yes. It’s one of the things that doesn’t get talked about often during birth stories, dads kind of get bathed out in the background, so to speak. And we don’t really know what to, what to do in those moments.

And, but it truly was an opportunity for us To experience something sacred together that we didn’t get to experience with our first son. So thank you for bringing that up.

KAREN: Yeah. I’m, I’m excited to hear both your perspectives. And especially if. If any mamas out there are listening and trying to convince your husband to have a home birth, or a natural birth, or, you know, go all in and invest in the Chorus, like, I think this will be a beautiful testimony of what God can do in the whole family, in your marriage, in, you know, and through childbirth, through the birth of your child, that it can bring you closer together, not not split you apart as it can in many situations.

So tell us a little bit first about your first birth and what that was like that you kind of then decided to make some changes with your, your second one.

JENNIFER: Yeah. So with the first birth, I was just fully prepared to do nothing and go into the hospital and let them tell me it. What to do and how to have this baby.

They do this all the time, right? Like they don’t, they don’t need my help. And so then we had a friend who really pushed us to like get a doula. She’s like, no, you need a doula. So we did that and it was helpful in a lot of ways and just kind of preparing us for.

What was going to be happening with my body basically. But when we were at the hospital, you know, she was wonderful in many ways, but I looking back I realized that she didn’t really advocate for us in a lot of the ways that I now know to advocate for myself or, you know, to encourage others to advocate for themselves.

I had decided ahead of time that I was going to get the epidural and people would even say, well, do you want to try without it? And I was like, why would you even suggest something so silly when we have this like modern medicine? And to be perfectly honest with you you know, I was how old 36 when we had our first, most of my friends already had many kids or at least one.

And. I can’t really tell you anybody who told me a negative birth story. Until after I had my, my hospital birth and then started sharing where I’m like, all these crazy, like really difficult things happen. And then people were like, yeah, same here. And I’m like, but like, nobody talked about it and nobody warned me to be honest with you.

That’s how I felt. But I think it’s just because everybody sees this so normal. So I was like, well, of course I’m going to get the epidural. I’ve never heard of a bad experience with this. I’m going to do it. It doesn’t make sense not to. So I did. Even though I was progressing like very well, I think I was dilating at least, when we got there, like four, you know, like four.

And then it was like five the next hour, then six, then seven, then eight. And then I was like, Well, this seems like a good time because I was really tired. I hadn’t slept in like two days looking back after taking your course. I think I was in labor for like two days. And I didn’t realize it because it really wasn’t that bad.

And then once I got there and, you know, fast forward, what, like six, seven hours later, I was so tired. And then they like, wouldn’t let me eat. So I was like, I’m just, I need a break. So I got the epidural. And then I just slept for what, like hours and hours and hours. That’s a great

KAREN: use of an epidural, by the way, to just sleep.

JENNIFER: No judgment. This is amazing. Yeah. And he was watching the contractions and he was like, Oh, you just had one. I was like, I did. I was like, Oh, this is so much better than feeling it. This is

HARIF: so great. Long term pain.

JENNIFER: Yeah. Because what I didn’t know is I was progressing very well. And what they didn’t mention was like, your baby’s still going to be trying to get out but like you’re going to be sleeping.

So he was trying to get out, like really hard, and I didn’t know because I didn’t feel anything. So, I’m probably going to get emotional.

Like I didn’t realize like what it was doing to him, you know, and like looking back it’s like he was trying so hard to get out and I had no idea. And then like they came rushing in like a movie. It was like a movie like I was sleeping and I woke up. And there was like five nurses and they were like rushing around and they like gave me a shot, which I now know was to stop the contractions and that’s all she said.

She’s like, this is going to help your baby. And she like put it in and like said that I don’t even think she told me what it was for. She just said it was going to help the baby. And so it did. It stopped my contractions. And a part that I skipped was that after the epidural, they gave me Pitocin. And I, at first that I didn’t want it.

And I remember the nurse kind of was like, okay, like, so what do you want to do then? And I was like, can I just wait? And she said, okay, yeah. Like, and so we’re like, okay, come back in an hour. And then she came back and I still wasn’t progressing, I think because of the epidural. So when she came back, I was like, okay, I guess it’s okay.

But They didn’t make me do it, but I did feel like a little bit of pressure, you know, so I was like, okay, well, I think they know better, you know, than I do. And they, they said like, it’s better for my baby. So they gave me a low dose of Pitocin and that’s what started like the contractions harder. But again, I was still sleeping.

I didn’t know.

KAREN: Yeah. And baby doesn’t have an epidural. It feels the full effect of those contractions pounding on them.

JENNIFER: Right. And because I didn’t know, I wasn’t working with my body, like I do wish they would have said like, Hey, like, don’t go to sleep. Even though you can’t feel it and maybe watch the monitor or maybe like do something, but instead they’re like, here you go.

Okay. Bye. And then I was, you know, then they rushed back in, you know, I don’t know how long later, it might’ve been a couple hours. And they give me the shot, they put oxygen on my face. They tell me the baby’s heart rate is dipping. And I kind of am confused, you know, I haven’t eaten in like over 24 hours.

I was all drugged up. I was sleeping, you know, I woke up, I w I was like kind of confused and I was just like, I don’t know what’s going on right now. But that was that that was like in the middle of the night. I think Saturday night we we got admitted at 1pm on Saturday, and I think that was the middle of the night so technically Sunday.

He wasn’t born until 1pm so full 24 hours after I was admitted so I was technically like in labor that full 24

KAREN: hours.

JENNIFER: Plus, and you got

KAREN: the epidural at eight centimeters,

JENNIFER: eight centimeters. Yeah. Probably around like 11 p. m. Maybe 10 o’clock at night.

KAREN: And then didn’t deliver until 12, 13 hours later.


KAREN: Wow. That’s crazy. And

JENNIFER: I know because like now everybody that I talked to that has had that same experience, they’re like, they rushed me into a C section, like they were not allowing it. And I was like, I. I can’t believe that they didn’t rush me. I’m so glad they did it. But most people I know, they’re like, they don’t like, they don’t

KAREN: mess.


JENNIFER: And you go that long.

KAREN: Right. And what you’re describing is the classic cascade of interventions. You know, you go to the hospital, you’re progressing totally naturally, normally, like textbook, even like every hour, a centimeter, you’re probably getting the epidural around transition. And had you not gotten it, if you’re already at eight centimeters, it probably would have been.

a couple hours later. Yeah, but then you get the epidural, which most of us just know like that’s what everybody does. So that’s right. And then well, now you need Pitocin because the epidural slows down your labor, which, you know, decreases blood pressure, labor contraction slow, so you’re not making as much progress.

So then they give you Pitocin. And if you don’t know all these things, it’s like, okay, well, like you said, doctors know best. Yeah. They don’t give you full informed consent and say, Hey, this could cause fetal D cells, baby’s heart rate could dip. It could cause all these things that contractions to stall and space out and all of these potential complications.

They don’t do that. They don’t give informed consent. So when it happens, you’re startled, you’re like shocked, like what’s going on? Did I do something wrong? Well, no, your baby’s just responding appropriately to all of these drugs in your system. And it’s now detached from mom, it doesn’t know, oh, mom is I’m connected.

And so It’s feeling the surges. It’s intense. It’s trying to maneuver down the birth canal. If you’re already 70 years, it’s probably now like trying to rotate internally and make all these cardinal movements, but because you’re immobile, it’s having a hard time doing that. It gets scared by all these attractions, heart rate dips, or maybe.

The monitors just slip off. I’ve had this happen and everybody rushes in just like you say and maybe baby was fine, but the monitor just kind of moved and it looked like the heart rate dropped off the charts. So, these are just actually very normal situations in a, in a Medicaid at hospital birth that most moms don’t even realize it’s very.

common, very common to happen. And so yours didn’t end in cesarean, but very often they will, if they start seeing these cells, they can say, okay, we got to go to emergency cesarean right away. And then it’s thank God we saved your baby, because otherwise, baby would have died. Well, no, actually, You’re just solving the problem you created with all the drugs and the interventions to begin with.

And so it’s, it’s a perfect example of that. And most moms don’t know any better as, as you did. So what was, what happened after the birth that, you know, like, like your husband said, it was temporary relief, but then long term consequences.

JENNIFER: Well, because he was our first, I think we didn’t know until we had our second that we were like, wow, like they’re really different.

Like, I think with our first, he was just like a really fussy baby, like really fussy, like really hard to calm down. That’s a really the best way I can describe it is he just was really fussy. Whereas when our second was born, I literally asked the pediatrician if it was safe for him to be sleeping so much like I was like, Is this okay I was concerned for his well being because I’m like this doesn’t seem normal to me.

And they’re like, No, it’s fine. But, you know, people will say

KAREN: oh that’s just a difference of personality but I I do believe there’s an element of the way babies are brought into the world. They then have to work out that trauma if they were born in trauma and stress and fear and it comes out in colic.

It comes out in, you know, problems, breastfeeding or digesting or bonding because babies are humans too. They’re having a human experience and we can’t discount that.


JENNIFER: he also had the meconium in his lungs. So as soon as he was born, they Yeah. Talking from me.

HARIF: So, and,


HARIF: doesn’t remember even fully.

She wasn’t fully present because of how mentally, physically, and even spiritually exhausting that process was. And when you have certain chemicals in your bloodstream and just, yeah, and no food, you’re literally starving, you’re dehydrated and you’re working against gravity to try to push the baby out.

KAREN: Yeah,

HARIF: I was there from watching it from a different vantage point. And, you know, the nurse, not to get too graphic or anything, but the nurse like had her hand in my wife trying to

JENNIFER: Manipulate

HARIF: the cervix. Like literally for 20 minutes, 30 minutes,

JENNIFER: maybe even longer.

Yeah, it was a long

HARIF: time, you know, kind of to back up into your point, not only do I believe the way that the baby’s brought into the world, does it affect them because the body keeps score, but it’s already been proven, right? Even, even while they’re in the womb, certain things that happen. And then you have this kind of climax of, okay, this is what I’m going into.

And when you have you know, this entire process where there’s not only is she starving, dehydrated, on drugs, fluorescent lights, Any time she does get any reprieve, the new nurse on shift walks in and pokes, Hey, here to test you. So it’s a never ending kind of constant disruption of the natural process.

I believe the way God created it to be it’s just constant intervention. And, and I wouldn’t even call it intervention. I’d call it disruption, I guess.

KAREN: Yeah.

HARIF: Disturbing. And so there’s no reprieve. And then we wonder

KAREN: why baby goes into fetal distress.

HARIF: Yes, exactly. We’re all distressed. So everyone is utterly exhausting.

Not to mention the food at the hospital is horrible, but that’s another. But dad’s got to leave. You wouldn’t even want to eat it if they allowed you to, but trust me.

na: But no, that’s,

HARIF: That’s another thing. But when, when Leo was born, They immediately, you know, normally they’ll try and give, put you on mama’s bosom to try and get that bond going.

But because he was in there so long, he, you know, they had the meconium and they got into his lungs. So they snatched him from as soon as he was born.

JENNIFER: Yeah, they rushed me for like, A second,

HARIF: like literally two seconds. And it was like, not even on your clothes. And it was like, and you were like, what’s going on?

They took them and I was like, right, you know, I’m still emotional because I just watched my son born, you know, to add insult to injury. I cannot forget this point literally right. As soon as he was getting ready to be born students, like six students come in and they were like, Hey.

na: It was,

HARIF: it was, young men and young women, a few girls. And they were like, Hey, do you mind if we’re here and kind of watch? And I was so, I wasn’t even, I was like, yeah, whatever. I was so focused on what was going on with my wife. And after that, I felt like, man, it was so violated. Like this is, My wife is in the most vulnerable place that she could ever be.

And you have these strangers at the last minute. I just felt like it’s, this is not a show or a spectacle. But this, it took all the, the sacred moments that we experienced with our second birth. It was there was no room for that. Because again, it was just constant disturbance.

So they snatched him. They put him under the lamp. They’re shoving tubes down his throat to try and suck out poop. And then they’re rubbing him. And ever since then, , they wouldn’t let us leave. The two days because they wanted to monitor him.

And we just, it was a, it was just not a fun experience. Like all

JENNIFER: of his, the Billy Rubin tests from the meconium were all coming back like perfect off the charts. They were like, the nurse even said like, I think she at one point asked me, like, did he even have meconium in his lungs? Like his first test was coming back, like so good.

And then fast forward to, I guess it was like a day, day and a half. We’re like, can we go home? Like, we’re really tired. We want to go home.

HARIF: they Said, you can, but you’re going to have to leave the baby.


JENNIFER: I was like,

HARIF: We’re like, we’re not leaving our baby. Yeah.

KAREN: Yeah. Yeah. And sometimes if they see meconium, they just, as they, they do the same protocol as if there was meconium aspiration, which is dangerous, right? You don’t want baby to aspirate. But if there’s meconium alone without aspiration, that’s not an emergency. And so, but sometimes they treat it the same in a hospital.

HARIF: I was there when she stuck the tubes down Leo’s throat. And nothing came out. There was like nothing in the tubes.

KAREN: Wow. It’s just, it’s just another, yeah, so much unnecessary intervention. Like, 100

HARIF: percent, that was his first experience into the world.

KAREN: Yeah. And, and yeah, it’s so, unfortunately, so normal, normalized in our culture, right? You know, if he didn’t aspirate, you don’t have to do anything if he didn’t show signs of distress and like he was having a difficult time breathing or, you know, all of that. It’s okay, you wipe the meconium off and you can keep baby with mom.

But it’s just another example of that over intervention that hospitals do, because they’re trying to protect themselves from liability, because if they don’t do something, and then it turns out, oh, baby aspirated and had gotten infection, they’re liable. But if they over intervene, they’re not liable.

na: Oh,

KAREN: yeah, Unfortunately, that plays back on like you have this experience now that you have to carry with you and baby of all of these interventions and separation and anxiety and trauma that now you’re left with.

And you have to work through that. And they’re not responsible. It’s just like, oh, we saved your baby. Thank God.

HARIF: And here’s the thing that I think with that is I know that the people that were there. We’re well meaning. These are not evil people. They were just trained a certain way. Exactly. And they with conviction believe, yes, we saved her.

We’re doing something good. I can’t imagine if you would have had a home birth, we wouldn’t have been there to do all of these things. And this, this is what helped us really make the decision easier for the second round because we were still, especially me, I was very nervous of having a home birth.

As dad, especially what happened the last time, you know, but Jen pointed something out really interesting to me. And it got me thinking is everyone that we asked that I guess would follow the more conventional Lester kind of approach hospital, everyone, when we would ask them questions, it was always the responses were always interlaced with fear or guilt.

What would happen if something happened to your baby or what would happen if everything is what happens if if if a worst case scenario occurs, and I understand the sentiment I really do. But then when we started exploring alternative methods and a more holistic approach. They, when we would ask hey well we’re thinking about maybe still doing a hospital where they say if that’s what you feel like.

You want to do then go for it. And I was like waiting for them to come down with the same guilt and shame or fear, and it just wasn’t really present. And so that’s when I started to open up as a, as a husband in supporting my wife. And if she hadn’t pointed that out, I don’t know if I would have noticed it, but I was like, Hmm, I can’t unsee that anymore.

KAREN: Yeah. And even, the meconium is another side effect, you know, or more common, I should say, when you have ketosin and a medicated birth, baby and babies going into field distress, they tend to release their first bowel movement. So even that is something that’s, you don’t, you don’t, but they don’t trace that back.

They don’t see, The line of how it’s all connected. They just assume that, Oh, well, what if this happened in a home birth? Well, the reason we don’t see it happen much is because it’s calm because we don’t have all the drugs and the potassium causing stress to baby. And, and if it does happen, you know, there’s protocols for how to treat that as well, and it’s much less likely baby will aspirate, but in a state of fear and stress, all these complications are much more likely.

And, and the whole environment and the protocols they enact in hospital, literally just create all of these scenarios that they, then they have to use more interventions to save you from. So, you know, you, so you start recognizing this, you’re processing your birth. And then you, you find me somehow, I’m assuming online, you buy the e course, like what, what was some of your big takeaways from that as you were learning about this whole different way to do it?

JENNIFER: I’m like, not really on Instagram that much. So I don’t look at. Things that I don’t already follow. Like I don’t look at a lot of new things, but somehow you came up as like suggested

HARIF: the algorithm,

JENNIFER: the algorithm, like got in my head.

I wasn’t even pregnant at the time I had had Leo, but I hadn’t, I wasn’t even pregnant with our second yet. And I saw this thing and I saw your name, pain free birth and rewind to like, I don’t know, probably years before that we were in like this marriage group. And one of the girls was talking about having a pain free birth.

And she was talking about, she had a really bad hospital experience too, but she was saying like, well, maybe I wasn’t like believing God enough and this and that, but I was listening and I was like, well, first of all, sister, you can’t have a pain free birth because that’s not a thing, she already had her baby. She had a bad experience. I’m not going to say anything. So it was like. That, but I always remembered that she thought she could have one . And I just, how

na: absurd it

JENNIFER: sounded. It’s so weird. I was like, I don’t understand why she thinks that’s a thing, , but whatever. And so like fast forward, I see your handle that says pain free birth. And I was like, Oh, this is one of those people who think the thing. I was like, I’m going to follow her because she’s probably weird too. And so like, I start following you. And then I was like, I kind of like this lady. I was like, I like her content.

And what really hooked me was your free master class of what’s in your bag. And honestly, out of the whole course, that was one of my biggest takeaways, the what’s in your bag, and when you ask, where do you get your idea of what birth is like? And I’m like thinking everywhere, right?

Like I’m 30 something years old. Like I’ve gotten it all my whole life. And then you’re like, you’ve probably really only gotten it from like, I think you said like maybe two or three places. I like really stopped and thought like, where am I getting my ideas of what birth is like? And I was able to narrow it down to like two or three things.

So I was like, okay, this lady knows what she’s talking about. And so when I narrowed it down, I was like, wow, I cannot believe I just narrowed down 30 something. years to like three people in like five comments that I’ve ever heard.

KAREN: Yes, everything else is just stacking on top of that and it’s just confirming your already learned bias, confirmation bias, but it’s all just reinforcing what you already decided based on those original imprints.

JENNIFER: Exactly. And so when I heard that, I, I mean, it really helped me to like unpack like what I believed about birth and I had already had an experience that wasn’t great. And so I just, it really helped me a lot. And the other biggest takeaway from the course, it’s honestly, probably one of the most simple things, but the most profound for me, in King and keeping a pain free birth was catching the contractions on the way up.

That was like so simple, but so profound because that’s exactly what I did. And that’s what kept it like pain free.

HARIF: Jokes on us basically is what, what you’re trying to say. Right. Because I’m not going to lie to when she was telling me about you, I was like, what pain free birth, like, like that’s impossible. Right. And I’m sure you get that all the time,

KAREN: but to

HARIF: your point, whether it’s marriage or money or health, your beliefs, whether we realize it or not, we’re fed to you.

They didn’t originate with us, all behaviors, learn behavior. And so when I, when she started challenging that our values aligned and beliefs aligned, that’s when I started questioning again, and I think it’s so important for the husband to, I can’t imagine for you as the woman to try and explain things alone and not feel supported by your husband during that process.

Has got to be one of the most loneliest things that you could ever feel. And so I think it utterly important that for anyone listening, definitely get your husband involved and just have, start having the conversations together and keep an open mind because. It was a world of difference. And now that we’ve had that experience, anyone that I talk to that, that is even thinking about getting pregnant, or if they are pregnant, I’m in real estate, literally, we could be in the middle of me showing a property and someone’s pregnant.

Because I can’t not share that experience because it was such a, a huge difference. And really you can’t put it into words, you know, it’s only, it can only be experienced, not explained. I feel ultimately.

JENNIFER: Cause you know, we were unsure about having a home birth.

You know, I was like nervous because of everything that happened and horror stories that you know, the one in a million that you hear, like didn’t go perfectly. And then, you know, I was a little bit scared, but my neighbor was like, well, what do you think about a home birth? And I was like, no, why would you, that’s a weird thing to say?

No, thank you. And that same day, Harif completely unrelated said, what do you think about a home birth? And I just like stopped and I was like, why are you saying this? Did you talk to our neighbor? I was like, that is. No, but then I, I felt it like I felt the tug on my heart and I was like, okay, God, if there’s like one more sign, I’ll consider it.

Right. So fast forward, like a week. Nothing. I grabbed my phone and I get on Instagram and the first post was your post that said, Today is national home birth awareness day.

And I literally was like, all right, I’ll do it. I’ll do it. But I was like, are you kidding me? I am not getting out of this. So I might as well just go all in.

KAREN: That’s amazing. Harif, what is it you tell couples when they are pregnant? Like what, what is your word of advice for them?

HARIF: So at first it was a, it was a little weird, right?

Because you got this guy who’s, I’m a guy passionate

KAREN: about

HARIF: birth . Yeah. I’m so passionate about it because I love it when yes, and passionate about this. Never I would be like this, but

KAREN: you’re a birth chunky now. Welcome, welcome the club. Yes, and,

HARIF: and like, but you know what’ll do it to any guy is watching your wife be completely vulnerable.

And, you know, you can’t do anything to help her,

na: nothing,

HARIF: and you’re what you would think in your mind. It was supposed to be like, you know, all this expectation of, oh my gosh, it’s going to be the most beautiful thing in the world and I’m going to be in this hospital and I’m going to see my son. And it’s going to be this epic milestone of your life.

And it was, and we could still see God in those moments in his grace despite all the things that occurred, it was. if one of the top moments of my life, but I just remember feeling so powerless and I can’t do anything. And you know, it was almost like watching someone other than my wife give birth to my son because she wasn’t even her.

She was literally drugged up, , dehydrated. And starving.

KAREN: Yeah. And so disconnected from the experience.

HARIF: Exactly. I couldn’t, and maybe it was a coping mechanism for me to disconnect or whatever, but I did not feel, I, I was so confused, honestly, kind of walking away and just kind of thinking, this is not how it’s supposed to be.

KAREN: Yeah.

HARIF: And so

KAREN: And you know, you know that feeling that I, I, I know that feeling I’ve witnessed births and had that feeling where it’s like, this is not how it’s supposed to be. And it’s such a, it’s such a like a sinking feeling. And it just feels like you just there’s nothing you can do, but you just know in your in your soul, like, this is not how it’s supposed to be.

And I think what you’re really speaking of is, is trauma, like the husband’s partners experience birth trauma, too. And we don’t talk about that. We don’t, we don’t put the spotlight on that. It’s, it’s put on the mom, the mom experiences birth trauma, the baby experiences birth trauma, which is true. But I’ve had many couples who’ve experienced birth trauma. What you might not even consider, like, they even dismiss their own trauma because they say, well, our outcome was good, you know, like our baby survived. We had, it was okay in the end. I shouldn’t even feel this. Why do I feel this way? But what that feeling of this shouldn’t be this way and witnessing as an observer, your wife go through this truly is traumatizing.

And I think we just don’t recognize. And I’ve affirmed other men who’ve witnessed this before as well with their wives because you’re at a completely different vantage point, but you’re watching the person you love the most go through something so unnatural and disconnecting and you know, in your spirit, there’s just something not right about this, but you can’t do anything.

HARIF: It’s so powerful. I never heard it phrased that way, but that’s exactly spot on is that you dismiss your own trauma.

KAREN: Yeah,

HARIF: because as a man, especially in our culture, I feel like, that whole birth experience you’re taught, even if it’s unconsciously or inadvertently, but also intentionally that, Hey, you just play the background. The doctor is there, literally, still to this day, we, this is how brainwashed we kind of were.

Jen, this was during, right around the time of COVID.

na: Before right before,

HARIF: But Jen was like, yeah, if, if it were up to the, if they were up to me and we could only have one person in the room, it would be the doula. And not you. And she said that to me and I was just like, but this is again, she’s speaking because from a perspective of fear, right?

They know

JENNIFER: better. They know better.

HARIF: But, but this is so powerful because Beneath all of that, there’s a dismissal of the father and husband’s role that we get, that God would desire we get to experience in that moment. I, there’s really very few things that, if anything, that is more sacred. than that.

And so I believe it’s God’s heart and it is natural and it is the way that it was designed that we draw closer together and the bond is formed even tighter and that baby is born in that type of environment. And it’s, it’s it really is sacred. And so I did dismiss my own trauma. I invalidated my own feelings and I didn’t know, I didn’t even feel allowed to feel anything because You know, I didn’t want to infringe on what happened with my wife, but the reality was I was dealing with it in silence.

Like, you know, I, I just, I don’t even know what to make of all of this, you know? And so yeah. And compare that to what happened with the second, with the home birth. I was like, this is how it’s supposed to be.

KAREN: Was it hard to convince you to do a home birth or were you like ready to?

JENNIFER: No, he was the one who brought it up.

HARIF: Oh wow. You know what it was? Yes. I, I was so fearful though, to, to pressure Jen in any way, because Again, and it is ultimately it’s your body. Like you’re having, it’s not fair for someone to be like, Hey, let me suggest what you should do, how to give birth. You know what I mean? I don’t want to come off like that, but at the same time, again, I just, we’re believers and, and you know, it’s the way God intends it, it’s, there’s a, experience that God has hidden for you as a gift.

When you do rely or lean on people that you love and trust, and it’s not just because that’s how it was before she had been so conditioned where I was like, Babe, what do you think about not getting epidural? And it was. incredible resist, how dare no, no, I’m getting an epidural. You don’t understand it.

That’s how it was. So in a way I was very, I was cautious. I didn’t want to say anything. I felt like I couldn’t really say anything. And that’s what I think doesn’t get talked about a lot too, is the under Just like you exposed the beliefs around this have been given to you. You didn’t really, it didn’t originate with you.

All of those tentacles and the ripple effect of all of that has an impact on. The husband on and how he feels and then how that impacts the decision making process and all of it. I don’t even know if it’s fully quantifiable, but I, I know that I didn’t want to experience the same thing that we experienced before.

And I didn’t know where we went wrong. And we’re so grateful that really that you did step up and say yes to the calling that you have on your life to start posting. Because if you didn’t post like we literally would have not even known we could have had an entirely different experience. And so yeah, I, I was, I, I was open to the idea of having a home birth.

But as I, the more I learned about it, then I was, it didn’t take much convincing for me to, To jump on board.

The other thing I will say when, with our second. I was panicking. I was kind of freaking out because he was coming out so fast, you know, I was literally, and the doula wasn’t there and she ended up getting COVID. So it was like some other, she had to refer us to like a backup doula.

And then the midwife. Was going through something. And then she had like the second one backup had some other, she was, she was sick. And so it was like the third and I’m panicking to the point where I’m pacing and I don’t even realize it. And Jen is like, well, you calm down. You’re stressing me out. And I was like, Oh my God, my, my wife was getting ready to have birth is more calm than me.

Like, No, I know we haven’t

KAREN: even gotten into this birth story yet because all of this is so good and so relevant. I feel like this is I think so many couples are going to get so much out of this and it probably connects and relates to so many other people’s lived experience in their labors with. you know, a different kind of labor experience.

But I, yeah, tell us about this next birth. So Jennifer, you went through the course, you’re learning all this stuff. Like, it’s like God’s working in your heart and showing you all these things. And he’s working in, in your husband’s heart. And you said you didn’t even realize you were in labor until contractions were like two minutes apart.

Yeah. Yes. I I started losing my, my mucus like Saturday morning and this was five days past my due date, which was not like shocking. Cause with our first, I was also, you know, seven days late, you know, which is

totally normal and average.

JENNIFER: And so I was like feeling so good. I was like cleaning and organizing and he was like, you don’t look like it’s your due date.

I was like, I know. I feel. Yeah, I felt like a mate. I was like, I feel like I could be pregnant for like another month or two. Like, and I was huge, you know, I felt so good though.

HARIF: Very different from the first one.

JENNIFER: Yes. Yes. Would

KAREN: you attribute that to like having a different mindset or did you do something different?

JENNIFER: To be honest with you, with my first, I was working up until like maybe about eight months and I was sitting a lot. But then I became a stay at home mom. And to be honest with you, I was so busy and on my feet and active chasing after a toddler. I feel like just like being active is what really kept me like feeling so good.

That was

na: great.

JENNIFER: Yeah, I do feel like physically because with my first, I was very swollen, like very swollen towards the end. To the point, that’s actually why we went to the hospital. I was like, I think something’s wrong. And then they’re like, no, you’re in labor. But I was very swollen and I was like kind of painful.

But yeah, I felt so good. And then Yeah, I began losing it very slowly, just like with our first. And so I was like, okay, it’s going to happen soon. I don’t know when, but I felt really good. And then I would feel like these, these pains, which I now know were contractions, but at the time I was like, this is so.

So weird. I just have these like pains, but then they go away right away. And they only lasted, I don’t know, a couple seconds. And they were like hours apart, like nothing to write home about. Right. So then I went to bed Saturday night, slept a full night, felt great. Wake up Sunday, same thing kind of going on most of the day.

And. And then at night I was like, well, I guess I’m just going to go to sleep. I mean, nothing’s happening. And these, these contractions, I think, or these like pains, these surges are coming like so far apart. This is like, nothing’s happening. My doula is like, yeah, go to sleep. Just try to relax, you know, it doesn’t sound like anything, you know, and she’s like, maybe you’ll wake up in the middle of the night.

Who knows? So at like 10 o’clock, I was like, okay, I’m going to go to sleep. And I remember I laid down and I was like, I have to get up. Like, I just was like, I don’t feel comfortable. Like I just couldn’t get comfortable. And then I was like, I think it’s happening. I think it’s going to happen soon, but I still felt amazing.

He was in bed with our toddler. I fell asleep in a race car bed, sleeping in a race car bed. And I literally debated, I was like, should I go get him? Now, or should I do this for a while on my own? And I, I think I maybe made it like 30 minutes. I was like, I kind of just wanted to like be alone. And then I went and got him and I was like, it’s happening.

You have to get up. It’s happening. And so then we, you know, just kind of go in our room. And then I think I went in the shower pretty quickly. And I just like use the wand over my stomach. And And it was so like, relieving. I felt like, Oh, this is so good. And I remember in the shower. Now I know what was happening.

But at the time I was like, had this kind of like, okay, I think the baby was trying to get out, but I didn’t know it. It was just like this, like push. But I was like, Oh my God, that was like, So weird. That must have been like a contraction. And so, but looking back now, I know that it was my body was pushing but it didn’t hurt and it felt fine.

And he was like, I need to call the midwife.

HARIF: No, we’re skipping one step. I was timing when she was having these feelings and I’m like timing them like he’s doing every quote for those. Yes, I have air quotes. The truth is the with our first, she was having quote unquote gas pains for two days.

And I said, if you’re having gas pains on the third day, I’m taking you into the hospital. And she’s literally on a yoga ball in the middle of the night, one o’clock in the morning moaning. I’m like, are you sure this is gas? She’s like, yes, it’s gas. I’m like, Okay, so she’s taking vino or whatever. When she, it was reminiscent of the last time that she didn’t really know. So I started timing the contractions. I was, and I said, Hey, every two minutes, you’re having these weird feelings, quote unquote.

So it’s time to call everybody because we were supposed to do this when they were 10 minutes apart. And so we did and I’ll let, I’ll let Jen continue the story.

JENNIFER: I feel like it went from

HARIF: zero to 60.

JENNIFER: Love it. Big like hours or an hour, like really big time lapse in between.

And then once I got in the shower, I think it was around that time that I was like, it was happening more, but it didn’t feel like two minutes. And, but it really did go from like a big space to like, and so he’s like, I’m going to call them. And I even said, they’re gonna, they’re not going to come because I feel fine.

And after, after the contraction and the wave, I was like talking and I was, you know, it wasn’t like a big deal and I was like, I don’t think this is what labor is like, I think I’m supposed to not be able to talk and I don’t know and so He’s like, I’m going to call them. And then that’s when we found out basically everybody was unavailable.

Everybody was sending their backup. And so the doula who ended up coming, I’ve never met her before. And she was like, just this angel of light who came into my house at 2 a. m.

HARIF: Yeah, because our doula week, when we called her, she had COVID that morning and, or she found out she had COVID that morning and she was like, Hey, don’t give birth today because I have COVID ha ha.

And, and that night, obviously the way God ordained it, it would happen exactly the way that it was supposed to, but I remember while she was in the shower, I, I’m calling to do, I’m freaking out, honestly, at this point, because the midwife, it, like, Jen is like, I feel like he’s coming out and I’m literally telling her, I’m like, hold up, close your legs, hold them in there.

And she’s like, I don’t know if I can do that. And, and so I’m panicking. I’m not going to lie. I’m just like, it’s happening so fast. And I called the midwife and she’s like, I’m 75 minutes away. So if you have to give birth before I arrive, I was like, timeout, let me stop you right there. That’s not happening.

na: We’re going to wait

HARIF: for you to arrive and then we can give birth. Like, I hear you, but if it does happen, and this is what I need you to do. And I’m like, God, this can not be happening to us. But so she ended up calling the doula who had COVID and she was kind of coaching her to breathe. There was a moment where she was like, I don’t think I could do this, but she was just supporting her, giving her words of encouragement and something instinctually and Jen told her to kick on the bathtub.

She’s like, fill up the bathtub. And so we fill up the bathtub and her body, she wanted to get in the bathtub. And so she’s literally in the bathtub.

JENNIFER: You’re skipping a couple steps, but

HARIF: Oh, okay.

JENNIFER: Our doula was coaching us over the phone,

And this is, I feel like an important part for some people.

I was standing my entire labor. Like I stood my entire labor. I tried to sit down on the yoga ball and immediately I was like, ow. And now I know it’s because he was so low, but I was like, I was standing and that was the most comfortable position for me. And the doula did tell him to get the bed ready with like, you know, the towels and the liners and all that.

She’s like, just in case she wants to lay down. And I was like, yeah, yeah, go ahead. But like, I knew the whole time I wasn’t going to lay down, but I was like, yeah, just go ahead and do it anyway. You know? And then I had my, space to, you know, to be in the bathroom, standing on the sink, you know, like, or standing over the sink.

But I knew it was too uncomfortable for me to lay down. And then the, and then so she sent her backup who was also far away and she only made it 20 minutes

na: before I gave

JENNIFER: birth. So that’s the part I was going where she came in and just kind of was like super calm and I was like, okay, if something was wrong, she would probably be freaking out.

So I should be calm too then. So I was like continuing but I was like, I have to poop right now.

I have to poop right now. Right now I was like and she’s like, okay, just go, go, go to the toilet. And then I sat down and I was like, it was very painful.

Cause I, cause he was so low, but I was like, okay, I don’t actually have to go to the bathroom really. And we heard like this loud pop and I didn’t know that it was my water breaking. And she kind of checked me, all the lights were off. We just had a couple of candles lit, but she like turned on a light and looked and she was like, Everything’s fine.

You know, it’s good. It was just like some mucus or something. I was like, okay, whatever. And so we turned the lights back off and that’s when I stood up and I like just knew it was like like a movie. I was like, I have to get in the tub right now. And I’m like, no,

KAREN: when, you know, I

JENNIFER: had to get in the tub.

Cause we had it filled for a while. And I was like, I have to get in right now. And then that’s when everything happened.

HARIF: Three pushes. I want to highlight one of the things during the course that she had mentioned. That I, again, it was forward to me, but it resonated with me.

And she was, she was mentioning how important it was to basically go to the place where you can express your desire to God about how you want this experience to go. And she had it all planned out in her head. That she wanted she wanted it to occur while our son was sleeping and that he would wake up and meet his little brother.

We had candles lit very different from fluorescent light bulbs with people poking and prodding and all of these things. Right. And she’s in the warm tub, bathtub. We have candles lit.

We have worship music playing and our son is sleeping and we’re two, you know, the dual and myself are there supporting Jen while she’s going through the natural process. And she played a song, which I’ll let you share because it’ll tie, it’ll, it’ll tie back into it. You can do it. And and it was the, the most sacred, beautiful thing I’d ever experienced in my life.

Is watching it during this moment, but why don’t you share that babe?

JENNIFER: So I was hibernating in my room for all of Sunday. So labor kind of started Saturday morning. And then Sunday morning is when I was like, I just like need to be alone. So that was a big difference from. My hospital birth where, you know, there was a lot of people in commotion and all that, like you said, fluorescent lights.

I basically hibernated. Well, kind of like you talk about like an animal, like you go and you hide and you give birth. And that’s exactly what I did. I went in my room and I, I hid from the world and it was amazing. And it was so calm. And that’s how I was able to breathe through my contractions and everything.

So. And any time I would leave my room, which was not often and my toddler would pull at me or there was commotion downstairs, I would feel the pain of the contraction. I’d be like, Oh my God, ow, ow, ow. You know? And then, so I just, I went back upstairs and I was like, I, I hid, you know, I, I hid in the quiet, dim room.

I ate, I drank, I, you know, Which is so amazing how

KAREN: you recognize like, Oh, when people are pulling on me and causing me this distraction. And. You know, I have to avert my, you know, take care of a baby, like it, the contractions actually feel more painful.

JENNIFER: A hundred. It was the night and day. Did

HARIF: you know you were having contractions at

JENNIFER: that point?

Yeah. Cause that was like Sunday evening. She wasn’t in denial by

HARIF: then.

JENNIFER: Yeah. Yeah. I wasn’t in denial anymore, but it was still so far apart that I was like, I think these are contractions, but they’re not that painful. If I. Catch them on the way up. But when I couldn’t do that because I have mommy, mommy, mommy, it was very painful.

And so I knew exactly what I had to do. I had to get away. So I went back upstairs and I was just playing like these two songs over and over. I actually forget what the second one was now, but the first one is a song that’s very near and dear to my heart. it’s ministered to me for a long time, even before I had kids is catch.

The wind by Melissa Helzer. And it’s just, there’s a line and the song, actually, I think it’s the first line. And she says, I’m strong and full of life. And, and it’s her song of her own testimony of healing and this beautiful story that she has. I’ve listened to it over and over and over. And so I was listening to the song and I was just kind of soaking in it.

So then when you fast forward to 2am and I got in the tub and I was like on my knees cause that was the most comfortable position for me. Just FYI, I tried a few other positions I saw in some videos and I was like, those didn’t work for me. And I just instinctually got on my knees and I just knew like this in the bathtub, that this is like how I was meant to give birth.

And it was just like, Yeah, I don’t think we had the music playing at that time because it was really quiet, but it just like bubbled up out of my soul. And it was like the weirdest thing. It’s like nothing that I ever do. Like I don’t sing or say things like that. And I was just on my knees and I just like belted out this lyric.

I was just like, I am screaming. Strong and full of life, but I kind of sang it, you know, and him and the doula were both like, yeah. And then I was like, okay, we’re doing this. We’re doing this. No. And then my body, I had the fetal ejection response, which was amazing. And he just came, he just came out, you know, three pushes.

HARIF: Yeah. You were, but what, how I remember it was not only did she She started singing this song, I’m strong and full of life. And then as a contraction was coming, like, I’m going to catch the wind. I can’t sing, but I’m going to catch the wind. Yeah. I remember her saying that and, and just the way that she desired the entire experience to go is exactly how it occurred.

And so to your point and how powerful the mind is. And the emotions and how we can set the tone for how things happen. wE’re not a victim of this. God has given us the power to set the environment, so to speak, and make a declaration and be bold and sharing your desire, because I realized that could be.

That could be risky for some people

na: because

HARIF: you don’t want to, you don’t want to seem like, Oh, well, I’m telling everyone this, or I’m telling my husband that, and then it doesn’t go that way. Yes. It requires faith. And it was so beautiful to see that. I’ll never forget that till my, my dying breath. It was the most beautiful, sacred thing ever.

And she was progressing so quickly that. I was again, I was like, Hey, don’t push him out too fast. His head’s going to hit the bottom of it.

JENNIFER: I’m like, he’s fine.

HARIF: Oops. Sorry. And so yeah. And in three pushes, he came out and our, and our son was born into the most peaceful.

JENNIFER: Yeah. I got to

HARIF: catch my son and raise him out of the water.

And, and he didn’t even cry.

na: Oh,

HARIF: such an experience. So different. He didn’t even cry. He was utterly at peace and was born into this place where there’s worship music playing. The lights are dim, but there’s candles burning. He’s in the warm bathtub with mama and embraced by mom. And I was behind Jen and we just lay down and the doula let us soak up every second of that precious moment.

And then the placenta came out


HARIF: little bit, like 20, 30 minutes later.

JENNIFER: I don’t even think that long, but I had kept saying beforehand, I was like, do you want to come in the tub with me? He’s like, no, I don’t want to go in the tub with you. It’s going to be like, you know, all bloody and stuff. And so it’s funny because the water was perfectly clean.

There was no, and so fast. And then like, I, you know, they, he gives me the baby. And then all of a sudden I was like, Oh my God, he’s in the tub.

I was like, you didn’t even think you were going to do that. And then we were just sitting, you know, like monkeys, it was like,

KAREN: Oh, I can picture it.

JENNIFER: And then, yeah, we, unfortunately we didn’t get many actual photos because it was dark and it happened so fast, but the doula took a couple that you have but the midwife got there six minutes after he was born.


na: so

JENNIFER: we were still in the tub and I was like, you missed it. You missed the whole thing, you know, just joking with her. And it’s funny how we go back to, to our prior experiences, because when he was coming out, it did feel, you know, like tight at first. And I was like, I literally looked at the jewel and I said, I said, somebody needs to cut him out of me because with our first, I had an episiotomy.

KAREN: Mm. And I had all the interventions with that one. I had all

JENNIFER: the interventions. I, I forgot about that one. And at first I said, no, in the hospital. And then I said, will it help him come out faster? And she said, yes, like absolutely. Yes. And even my doula at that point was like, go ahead. Like, you know, because I was, you know, It was rough, you know, I had been there for a while.

So they did. And then he came out right away. So in my mind, when I felt him coming like that, I was like, he’s not going to be able to get out unless somebody cuts me again. And I remember the dual looked at me and she just goes, You’re going to push your baby out like nobody’s cutting you and she’s not even authorized to do that.

I don’t think

KAREN: no,

JENNIFER: and so, you know, isn’t that

KAREN: crazy how the mind will play tricks on you and you’re, you’re like, if you believe that thought your body will tense and prevent baby from coming out. But as soon as you believe, no, I’m going to open and push this baby out. It happens.

JENNIFER: And then he did and he just came right out. And then when the midwife got there we were waiting for the placenta and I asked her if she could pull it out because in the hospital, that’s what they did.

na: And

JENNIFER: I didn’t know that you’re not supposed to do that. And thankfully I didn’t have any complications from, from her doing that.

But I remember in the hospital, she kind of like tugged at it and then it came out. So I asked her, cause I was ready to get out of the tub. I was like, can you. And I remember she goes, No, I’m not going to do that. And I was like, why? I don’t understand. That’s, that’s like, what helps it come out faster. And she was like, you’re going to deliver the placenta.

It’s going to be fine. There’s no bones. It’s the easy part. And then I think just a few minutes later, and it came right out.

KAREN: Yeah.

HARIF: And then this is the the, another incredible thing about having a home birth is You get to tailor it to how you want it to be right so we literally now after the placentas out in a wooden salad bowl.

If you’re envisioning this, don’t use anymore. Don’t worry guys

JENNIFER: favorite picture ever but the placenta on the bed in a salad bowl. So prepared. But that was one thing that I didn’t know I was supposed to have was a bowl. I had everything else. I had like 90 hospital blankets. I had like, I bought them on Amazon.

I had like everything. And then they’re like, where’s the bowl? I was like, that was not on the list.

HARIF: Wooden salad bowl. But then we got to, you know, carry Max into the bed and we just laid down. And I watched as my wife had this. runner’s high. It felt ri was so radiant and full o opposite of what happened the hospital.

And you wou as a man, I’m like, okay, exhausted afterwards. But Oxytocin and serotonin, just all of it, and literally we’re belly laughing. We’re talking with the doula. We’re talking with the midwife. She’s checking everything, and we’re in the comfort of our own home, in the comfort of our bed. And, you know, they were just so loving and caring after that.

And, you know, made food and hate you, you know, threw stuff in the laundry while we just got to relax and bond with our baby and with each other. And that’s something that you, I just, you just can’t. have in the hospital. And so if you have, I’m not a doctor, but if you have medical complications or whatever, like I get it if you can’t do it, but if you are able bodied and healthy, take Karen’s course, you’ll be glad you did.

And experience, honestly, the way birth was intended.

KAREN: And that’s, you know, hearing you describe that, all I can think is like, as it should be. That’s as birth should be. Like this incredible, sacred, bonding time. A room full of love and oxytocin. So welcome. Your, your baby, and, and we just distort it so much with fear and complications and interventions, but that when you strip all of that away, like, that is how birth, is designed to be that is, that is like, what better way would you want to bring a child into the world than in that room filled with love and peace?


HARIF: I couldn’t think of literally, if I try to think of a better way, I could not think of one. And it really truly was exactly how and I’m so thankful for the gift of you setting the tone during that time of Hey, Don’t be afraid to share your desire and how you want this experience to go, because when she said intention, literally, then we fell asleep and we woke up and we got to introduce Leo to, to Max

na: and he’s the

HARIF: best big brother and.

Yeah, we’re just so grateful. It’s, it’s incredible.

KAREN: Oh, it’s so beautiful. I mean, just what an incredible story. What would you say to, to other dads who are scared, who’ve had maybe a traumatic birth experience or witnessed one, and they’re just nervous on how to support their wife, how to be present for this birth?

What would you say to encourage them?

HARIF: I would tell them keep an open mind. And coming alongside your wife and sharing your intention first and foremost, maybe where you can take some measure of ownership and just say, Hey, listen, maybe the last time I felt like Or if this is your first time, I don’t really know what to do.

I don’t know what to expect. How can I support you? How can I help you? You know, what do you want this experience to look like? She’s probably never been asked those questions before. And I think it’ll get her starting to think, hey, what do I want, you know, and why? And you know, obviously, if your wife is even a little bit open to a home birth, Then I would say, Hey, I came across this podcast or I, you know, Karen’s page and I, I paid for it.

And I would you be open to taking this, just hearing, hearing it, you know, and, and keeping an open mind and just having that door open as an invitation to hopefully share with her, that there’s other ways that she might not be aware of that she can have this. this birth. And so I think our role as a father and as a husband is to be supportive.

But also to, you know, I think that that looks like asking more questions than it is maybe telling them what your, what you want, you know, and that, that would be my, my biggest thing. So I think there’s two extremes. One is being silent. Hey, whatever you want to do, babe, the passive guy, the passive husband, whatever you want to do.

Okay. You want to have a house? Okay. No problem. And, and that’s not really, I think, what she needs. And then there’s the other extreme of, hey, we’re going to do X, Y, Z. And, and you could be too extreme, but I think finding that middle ground where you, again, the intention is for you, hopefully to anybody listening to this, my desire and hope for you.

Would be that you get to experience the sacred bond that could occur during this experience that I don’t believe could happen under any other circumstances. There’s nothing like it. And it really is one of the most important things that you could ever experience as a couple. So she’s worthy of the pursuit you know, and, and asking those questions.

And there is a gift for you as well in this whole process, if you’ll lean in and press in and not be passive or not be too controlling, but finding that middle ground, that’s the best way I could explain it.

KAREN: That’s beautiful. And I know Jenny, you expressed you were going through a rough time in your marriage.

What did this birth experience do for you in your marriage?

JENNIFER: Oh, what a loaded question.

At that time, like right before he was about, our son was about to be born, we were in discord and I was just thinking like, This isn’t, you know, sorry.

I was like, this isn’t how it was supposed to be, you know? And then I was like cramming your course. And cause I waited till the last minute and I was listening and I came across the the module where you were talking about your marriage. Right before you, you gave birth and how it wasn’t how it was supposed to be, you know, and how even through that, you still were able to basically have, you know, the birth that you were meant to have.

And your husband was still there and he was still supporting you. And, you know, maybe your marriage wasn’t exactly where you would have wanted it to be when you were you know, birth, but that it’s still like that God still worked everything. To write a beautiful story. And I feel like that’s exactly what happened with us.

Like we were like not getting along and it was, you know, we were even that Sunday morning before he was born, you know, sitting at a coffee shop talking about, Who knows what, but some, some problem. And that we were like, I was like, we have to settle this argument before I give birth. And we did. And I, who even knows what it was, it probably wasn’t even important, but, you know, I just remember kind of having that tension and then being like, this is not how I imagined having this, this beautiful second experience.

It was supposed to be so different. And then the way everything played out, it was, it really was like, So beautiful in the midst of, you know, some trials that we were going through at the time. And so I was so thankful. I was like, I can’t believe she shared all that in her, in her course. Like it was so vulnerable and it was so personal.

And I was like, I never thought I’d have the chance to tell you like how much it meant to me, like truly.

HARIF: Just to put the icing on the cake, it was so cool how Again, it was just one of those moments. Everyone’s going to think like everything is horrible with our marriage. It’s not. No, I think it’s

KAREN: relatable.

We all go through those times. Yes,

HARIF: exactly. If you’re human you, you, you know, but we met you at the event at an event where it was one of those challenging times. And we moved heaven and earth to like get there and we had no idea that he would be there. And we were sitting a couple rows behind you and Jen nudges me like, Hey, that’s, that’s a pain free bird.

And I was like, what?

JENNIFER: That’s your name. I was like, that’s the lady. That’s a

HARIF: pain free bird. And, and And I just knew that it was again just Providence. It was God smiling, you know, and it wasn’t coincidental, but the fact that we were able to share our story with you and get to now, there’s so many stories that you, you probably don’t even know the lives that you touched.

And people that, you know, me showing while I’m showing, while I’m showing real estate properties to buy your course, and then we never hear from these people, but their lives were changed, you know, it really is so profound and powerful, the message that you are that you’ve committed to, to sharing, because not only have we been impacted, but everyone in our sphere as well.

Will be impacted. And these will be the stories that you never hear. Maybe this side of glory, but all these babies that are being born in such a different environment because of it. It’s, it’s, it’s really is it’s sacred and, and a huge blessing. So thank

KAREN: you. Oh my gosh. I’m like tearing up that warms my soul.

I love, I mean, this is, it’s why I do what I do and you’re right. There’s so many stories I’ll never hear. I, and I, even the ones that come in, I can barely, Yeah,

JENNIFER: that’s awesome. That’s a good problem to have. It’s a great

KAREN: problem. And you know, it’s, it’s such a powerful thing to know, like I’m, I’m walking out my calling.

This is a message that women need to hear. And he’s brought me back to that several times, especially this year, is make the main thing, the main thing. Share the message that birth doesn’t have to be scary and painful. And I. I just have to honor him and, and be obedient because I know the, the impact it’s had not only on my birth, but on everyone I work with and, and the stories that come in.

And you guys are a living testimony of that. And it’s not about me. It’s about him. It’s the way he created our bodies to birth. It’s God’s design. It’s the way he intended Us to birth and raise our families and, and do it in a, in a place of love and peace and joy and start a family on that frequency, not in fear, you know, and that’s, you know, I’m just the mouthpiece, but I, I so appreciate your words because it just gives me fresh motivation to share even more.

HARIF: And I’m thankful that you, you had me on too, because again, the opportunity that it gives, you probably, you don’t, I don’t know how many times you hear it from the man’s perspective, and so,

KAREN: you

HARIF: know, again, just, I cannot as a father and husband emphasize enough. How it has impacted me and where I, the first time around where I dismissed my trauma, now I get to have an entirely different experience, you know, because of it.

So it’s multifaceted and and truly our sons are very, very different. And, you know, it, it while God is orchestrating all things ultimately for our good and his glory you know, there’s a marked difference between the two and so it’s just, everyone gets better when, when you get to go on this journey you know, it’s just, it’s just so much different.

KAREN: And I love how God, you know, even in the midst of experiencing a traumatic birth that he, he brings redemption and he brings healing, sometimes in ways we don’t even expect, you know, through whether that’s through a healing birth, or, you know, I know your, your first son is going to experience those moments to where God heals, That trauma or that anxiety that’s in his heart.

And, and just through that love and bonding that you guys now carry as parents and as a family, bringing God’s light into your family. So

HARIF: that might be another division of the pain free birth. Seriously, it’s because it is something that we don’t, I don’t feel entirely equipped. And until you even said this, where you said you dismissed your trauma, I didn’t even realize that’s exactly what I did.

But you know, I feel like there’s, we need some coaching for, for that too. So if you launch that, we’ll be the first ones healing from a

KAREN: traumatic birth. Yes.

HARIF: Be healed from a traumatic birth. Yeah. I do

KAREN: have a course, a mini course on that.

HARIF: Sign up.

KAREN: I mean, I don’t have one for the partners, but for the women, I help you release it somatically from your body.

Cause our body keeps us. Yeah. And it’s usually. You know, from someone coming off of a traumatic birth and then preparing for a new birth experience. Sometimes you need some deeper somatic release in order to really allow that the trauma in your body to to be released before you can prepare for the good one.

Otherwise, you kind of carry a lot of that with you. But and it’s so prevalent, unfortunately, and I saw the need for it. Like, oh, this is we’re just carrying around trauma from all these birth experiences. And but yeah, I do have that, but maybe you’re inspiring me and giving me an idea for helping the partner.

Part, part

HARIF: two of that. So you have the partner and the child.

KAREN: Yes. I do share in there there is some prayers in there that I include on helping your child release the trauma and how you can actually.

facilitate that after the baby’s born, whether that’s like post in the postpartum season, if there was separation, or even if they’re older, you know, some I’ve had women who like lay their hands on their babies when they’re sleeping and release and declare things over them that allow their babies because their spirit is alive, right?

Even if they’re like, conscious mind doesn’t understand the traumas often in our subconscious. And so we can minister to their spirits and allow even our children. To release as we pray over them to release that fear and that trauma because that fear, you know, as parents that fear will manifest in different areas of their life

HARIF: percent,

KAREN: and you can support that and allow them like to tell it because the babies will tell their story through crying or through this colic that we call it we just we put a label on it but that’s kind of.

It’s either like digestive, nutritional things, or it could be emotional. I’m not saying alcoholic is like trauma based, but a lot of it is. And as children, then we just learn coping mechanisms of like, well, now we’re going to get afraid every time we’re in a new situation or we’re going to, you know, not take any risks or, you know, whatever it is.

I’ve, you know, even in, you know, quote unquote, good births, I think are those our babies pick up stuff. They pick up our own fears. They pick up how they were handled, how they were treated, how they were. You know, touched all of that is being imprinted on them from such a young age. And we, as parents, and of course we’re going to experience trauma in life.

We can’t feel bad and beat ourselves up over it. But the amazing truth is that God gives us this incredible responsibility to love our kids. and facilitate, be a conduit of healing for them. And he’ll show you how, even if you don’t know, like he’ll show you and give you this like spark of intuition that just says, you know what, I feel like I need to pray over my, my son right now.

And you know, how do I, what do I declare? And he’ll just show you like downloads of like, you know what, your son really needs this to release this or break this off. Or even if it’s like connected to a spiritual thing, I think. I’ve, as parents, I’m still learning that too. There’s ways our kids need us and they’re all so unique.

Wow. That’s

HARIF: so powerful and beautiful. Well, yes, we’re excited to, to

KAREN: to delve into that. Yes. Appreciate you guys. This has just been incredible. Thank you for sharing with. With our listeners and with our community, your experience and how I just I’m taken away from this like that, that even as a husband, but for both of you for your whole family, that this is such a sacred experience.

And I love that you have emphasized that word so much, and what it meant to you to witness your wife in this. And I think it’s also so Interesting that in your first birth, you talked about how there was all these people and, and Harith, you just felt like, like you were almost dismissed, like not even relevant in the labor experience because of all the doctors and all the interns and, you know, your voice didn’t matter.

And it was just like, okay, let, let the doctors do their thing. And then in your second birth, your midwife didn’t even make it. Your original doula didn’t make it. And, and it’s

JENNIFER: just you and him

KAREN: and a backup doula that gave you that second birth. And it allowed you to bond, but really it was just you two and the redemption of God, even in that is so beautiful.

HARIF: Yeah, that’s that would be my message to the fathers is that you don’t have to be just a spectator. You can participate in this beautiful experience and that’s how God designed it and I believe that wholeheartedly.

KAREN: Oh, thank you. That’s a perfect place to land this. Thank you guys for showing up.

Thank you for sharing your story and I hope this bless you guys.


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3 Keys to a Pain-Free Birth

Karen gives away her top 3 secrets to a pain free birth, you will not believe it’s free! Come ready to take notes, and don’t forget the tissues. You do not want to miss this!